Legacy System Specialists

Siemens Apogee Systems Approaching End of Life?

Siemens has moved on to Desigo CC. If you're running Apogee, Insight, or legacy MBC systems, you're facing tough decisions about the future. We can help navigate them.

Talk to a Siemens Specialist

The Siemens Legacy Challenge

Siemens Building Technologies has a long history — and that history includes multiple generations of systems that are now reaching end-of-life. From the old Landis & Staefa days through MBC, Insight, Apogee, and now Desigo, there's a lot of legacy infrastructure still running.

The problem? Siemens' migration path typically means buying into Desigo CC — an expensive, complex platform that may be overkill for many buildings.

The Protocol Problem

  • • P1 and P2 protocols are proprietary and aging
  • • FLN (Floor Level Network) integration challenges
  • • Limited BACnet support on older controllers

The Support Problem

  • • Apogee systems being phased out
  • • Finding MBC/Insight expertise is difficult
  • • TALON controllers no longer manufactured

The Migration Problem

  • • Desigo CC is complex and expensive
  • • Full replacement often proposed
  • • Limited options presented by Siemens

We Know Siemens Systems

From legacy Landis & Staefa to current Desigo — we understand the full Siemens ecosystem.

Apogee Platform

  • Apogee Insight — Workstation software
  • Automation Server — Building controllers
  • Terminal Equipment — Zone controllers
  • Modular Building Controller

Legacy Controllers

  • MBC — Modular Building Controller
  • TALON — Terminal controllers
  • TEC — Terminal Equipment Controller
  • Unitary — Legacy field controllers

Protocols

  • P1 — Legacy trunk protocol
  • P2 — Point-to-point protocol
  • FLN — Floor Level Network
  • BACnet — Newer installations

Software

  • Insight — Legacy workstation
  • APOGEE — Building automation suite
  • Desigo CC — Current platform
  • Desigo Insight — Mid-tier option

Platforms We Specialize In

Apogee Systems

Siemens' primary building automation platform for decades. Still widely deployed but increasingly difficult to maintain as Siemens focuses on Desigo.

Common Issues:

  • • Insight workstations running outdated Windows
  • • P1/P2 network communication problems
  • • Parts and replacement controllers scarce
  • • Integration with modern systems limited

We can integrate Apogee with Niagara or migrate to open platforms.

MBC (Modular Building Controller)

The backbone of many older Siemens installations. MBC systems are robust but the platform is long obsolete.

Common Issues:

  • • Controllers failing with no replacements
  • • Programming tools no longer supported
  • • Limited documentation available
  • • Knowledge base shrinking rapidly

We extract MBC programming and migrate to modern controllers.

TALON Controllers

Siemens' terminal/unitary controllers found in countless VAV boxes and fan coils. Simple but effective — and now obsolete.

Common Issues:

  • • No longer manufactured
  • • Replacements must come from existing stock
  • • Communication issues with aging networks
  • • Limited diagnostics available

We source TALON replacements or migrate to BACnet alternatives.

Landis & Staefa Legacy

Before Siemens acquired them, Landis & Staefa had their own product lines. Some buildings still run this equipment.

Common Issues:

  • • Equipment is 20-30+ years old
  • • Parts essentially unavailable
  • • Few technicians remember these systems
  • • Documentation may not exist

We can document, stabilize, and plan migration from L&S systems.

The P1/P2/FLN Protocol Challenge

One of the biggest hurdles with legacy Siemens systems is the proprietary protocol stack. P1, P2, and FLN are Siemens-specific — they don't play nice with the rest of the world.

This means integrating with other systems, connecting to analytics platforms, or even getting basic data out of your BMS can be difficult without specialized tools.

We have experience bridging these protocols to BACnet and integrating Siemens systems with modern platforms.

Integration Options

  • → BACnet Gateway — Expose Siemens points via BACnet/IP
  • → Niagara Integration — P1/P2/FLN drivers available
  • → Hybrid Approach — Modern supervisor on top of Siemens
  • → Phased Replacement — Migrate controllers as they fail

The right approach depends on your timeline, budget, and long-term plans.

Upgrade Paths

You don't have to accept Siemens' full Desigo CC proposal. There are alternatives.

OPTION 1

Stay with Siemens

Best for: Large facilities, Siemens-committed organizations

  • • Upgrade to Desigo CC
  • • Migrate controllers to current Siemens
  • • Maintain Siemens service contract

Pros: Single vendor, full support

Cons: High cost, vendor lock-in

RECOMMENDED
OPTION 2

Niagara Integration

Best for: Flexibility, phased migration

  • • Niagara supervisor layer
  • • Integrate Siemens via protocols
  • • Replace controllers over time
  • • Vendor-independent future

Pros: Open platform, gradual cost

Cons: Two systems during transition

OPTION 3

Full Migration

Best for: End-of-life systems, renovations

  • • Complete system replacement
  • • New controllers and platform
  • • Preserve field devices where possible
  • • Clean break from Siemens

Pros: Fresh start, modern system

Cons: Higher upfront cost

Frequently Asked Questions

Can you work on Siemens systems without Siemens?

Yes. We're independent integrators with tools and expertise to work on Siemens systems. We can program, troubleshoot, and migrate without Siemens involvement — often more cost-effectively.

Is Desigo CC my only option?

No. While Siemens pushes Desigo CC, there are other paths. Niagara can integrate with Siemens systems and provide a modern interface. You can also migrate to completely different platforms.

How long can I keep my Apogee system running?

With proper maintenance and parts sourcing, several more years in most cases. But the window is closing. We recommend starting migration planning now, even if you're not ready to execute.

Can you source replacement parts?

We have relationships with suppliers and can often source TALON, MBC, and other legacy Siemens components. Availability is declining, so we recommend maintaining critical spares.

Do you provide remote support for Siemens?

Yes. With secure remote access, we can handle programming, troubleshooting, and monitoring from anywhere. We travel for hands-on work when required.

Let's Talk About Your Siemens System

Whether you're running Apogee, MBC, TALON, or legacy Landis & Staefa — we can help you plan the right path forward.

Schedule a Consultation